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Last Shout - Posted by: Phil Quy - Tuesday, 31 August 2010 19:33
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| Perhaps a section can be added to the Non-Innocenti Photos page for the Lambrettas (TV175 series 3 & Cento, perhaps more) that were made in Taiwan. I have photos and so does Shadow (Sam Lin).
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bayarealam
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Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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Location: Tucson
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 Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:15 am Post subject: ScootRs awesomeness |
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I am not going to get overly verbal (now), but this is a ScootRs Li 200 that has not a whole lotta time on 'er. Anyway, I'll let the pics do the talking. They obviously chuck the spigot out a bit to get a 200 cc count and, hence, the cracking at the studs. The mag housing (pictured) has been re-machined by the crank. The crank taper is hashed because the starter gear came off it's rivets and wham! But I took the pic with a standard crank beacuse the R-type has a machined rod. Side to side play was about 4 mm and the rod is too thin for any 200, real or ScootRs. And no grease in the mag side at all.
On to the show. Randall, and this feels so good after fielding calls to "troubleshoot" your crap after these years. You should be ashamed of yourself.
You can email your libel claim to: sx200speakeasy.net 
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Craig Bachler
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Grumpy225
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Joined: 09 Feb 2006
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Location: Bakersfield, CA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm not following why the block would need to be opend up to get to 200? The cylinder studs could be relocated and all that fun stuff but it dosen't look like that. Last case I saw with cracks like that came off a Simbretta tv175, that case went in the recycling. The flyside bearing not being greased is a rookie move or a bad seal (dosent look like grease on the crank though) that bearing would have lasted about 100 miles before it locked up on you. Crankshaft, worn out. How does the bottem end of the motor look? |
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rob
LCUSA Member
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 982
Location: ATL
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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but craig, that's an old top end and they have completely remanufactured their processes to produce the utmost in build-quality...and he'll help the customer in anyway possible to get this corrected...yadda...yadda...yadda.
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Craig's grammar is (sic). |
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allmodcons
LCUSA Member
Joined: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 641
Location: winter-peg, the newfounland of the west.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:16 pm Post subject: Ha! |
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Another big old f*** you Randall!!! You are only rival is Stafford in terms of total twat-i-ness!!! Did the mechanic(s) of North America do this too? I cannot wait for your latest diatribe...seems like time for a cross post!!!
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 lambretta succhia...ma che cosa succhiate? |
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morbius
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Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Craig,
WOW, what a mess !! How many miles on that motor ?
Looks like it is time to replace the whole motor 
Cheers,
Roberto
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bayarealam
LCUSA Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
Posts: 2652
Location: Tucson
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I'm not following why the block would need to be opend up to get to 200? The cylinder studs could be relocated and all that fun stuff but it dosen't look like that |
The crankcase has been machined to accept a 200 jug, leaving paper-thin material for the studs. I compared it to a stock case and that's how I came to that.
| Quote: | | How does the bottem end of the motor look? |
So far, ok, but I haven't taken the clutch out yet. And the crank could be pushed out of the drive bearing with your fingers.
| Quote: | | but craig, that's an old top end and they have completely... |
he...you've been to the scootrs pr class? you get around town, downs.
| Quote: | | WOW, what a mess !! How many miles on that motor ? |
My understanding is fewer that 3k. Not my bike, but a friend of a mutual friend's bike.
| Quote: | So if that skinny rod with the big end side play scares you will you be changing your OG sx 200 and wifes jet 200 crank soon wink wink nudge nudge did they even bother to put the shims on the wrist pin ?
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That's an Innocenti crank, but some kinda voodoo has been done to the rod. They did have the shims in.
he
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Craig Bachler
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SpecialX200
Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 115
Location: Arlington, VA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Rude De wrote: | | wow they used an sx200 crank ... those things are time bombs |
I tried finding an NOS SX200 crank for a recent rebuild to no avail. I have broken an SX200 crank at the conrod before... Not pretty. |
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Grumpy225
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Posts: 2656
Location: Bakersfield, CA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The crankcase has been machined to accept a 200 jug, leaving paper-thin material for the studs. I compared it to a stock case and that's how I came to that. |
So the cylinder studs were relocated then? |
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morbius
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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Here is what scootrs site says about Lammy engines:
| Quote: | | With Lambrettas, you always have the option of upgrading to 200cc. We weld and machine a smaller case to accept a 200 cylinder, which is the only difference between the two. After we are done, it is difficult even to see where the change was made. (Can you see a faint line at the top back of the cylinder base in the photo? -That's because we haven't quite finished.) A 200cc LI Special with electronic ignition, 30mm carb, tuned exhaust, and a glovebox? Very nice. |
Here is what else they say:
| Quote: | Lambretta:
all motor parts (cylinder kit, stronger GP crankshaft, gears, layshaft, sprockets, etc.), lightened 12v CDI (electronic ignition) flywheel, Surflex clutch plates, best Iwis/Regina chain, race-style top chain tensioner, all bearings (SKF/Japanese), all seals (Rolf, etc.), all gaskets, all wiring and electronic parts, ignition, 12v halogen headlight, horn, rear hub, [disc,] brake pads, rims, tires, [front shocks,] all speedometer parts, lenses, locks, cables, rubber and plastic trim, upgraded 24mm PWK D-slide carburetor, fuel tap, air filter, exhaust, motor mount rubber, stand, all hardware, etc. |
So if true, then Craig should looking at a GP200 crank and a fully welded case. In order for a stock 200cc SIL head to fit, the studs would have to be relocated. To get 200cc out of a stock 150cc case, you have to bore the cyclinder to 66mm causing it to be paper thin.
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morbius
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Grumpy225
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Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 2656
Location: Bakersfield, CA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| morbius wrote: | Here is what scootrs site says about Lammy engines:
| Quote: | | With Lambrettas, you always have the option of upgrading to 200cc. We weld and machine a smaller case to accept a 200 cylinder, which is the only difference between the two. After we are done, it is difficult even to see where the change was made. (Can you see a faint line at the top back of the cylinder base in the photo? -That's because we haven't quite finished.) A 200cc LI Special with electronic ignition, 30mm carb, tuned exhaust, and a glovebox? Very nice. |
Here is what else they say:
| Quote: | Lambretta:
all motor parts (cylinder kit, stronger GP crankshaft, gears, layshaft, sprockets, etc.), lightened 12v CDI (electronic ignition) flywheel, Surflex clutch plates, best Iwis/Regina chain, race-style top chain tensioner, all bearings (SKF/Japanese), all seals (Rolf, etc.), all gaskets, all wiring and electronic parts, ignition, 12v halogen headlight, horn, rear hub, [disc,] brake pads, rims, tires, [front shocks,] all speedometer parts, lenses, locks, cables, rubber and plastic trim, upgraded 24mm PWK D-slide carburetor, fuel tap, air filter, exhaust, motor mount rubber, stand, all hardware, etc. |
So if true, then Craig should looking at a GP200 crank and a fully welded case. In order for a stock 200cc SIL head to fit, the studs would have to be relocated. To get 200cc out of a stock 150cc case, you have to bore the cyclinder to 66mm causing it to be paper thin. |
From what I understand the only 150 cases that can safely be restudded are the spanish ones because they used 200cc molds, at the very least the transfer surfaces are very thick. Boring out a 150 jug to 200 would probabbly leave you with a pile of fins. |
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dirtyhandslopez
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Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 2707
Location: Richmond Va.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:36 am Post subject: cases |
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Have finally got back from Denver and relaxed, cleaned fish, etc. Phew!
Nice pics. Looks familiar. If anyone has never taken one of theese thing apart before, they should. It is pure art.
Examine very carefully the endplate studs.On the SX I had the pleasure of working on, 4 of the six were shot(cases cracked were studs entered) dowels all wobbly etc. All in all, the customer spent about $2300 to get the vehicle rideable.
He didn,t say anything to anyone becuase he didn,t have the time to deal with it, having just started med. school
Please let the insanity stop.
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bayarealam
LCUSA Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
Posts: 2652
Location: Tucson
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| Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 1:15 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | From what I understand the only 150 cases that can safely be restudded are the spanish ones because they used 200cc molds, at the very least the transfer surfaces are very thick. Boring out a 150 jug to 200 would probabbly leave you with a pile of fins. |
Voila!!! That is what I am saying. I have some Spanish cases and you are right. But you can't do it with Italian 150s.
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Craig Bachler
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bayarealam
LCUSA Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
Posts: 2652
Location: Tucson
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| Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 1:25 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Have finally got back from Denver and relaxed, cleaned fish, etc |
yo Dlo, nice seeing you. I was going to say something about the "fish."
Damage control, if any, should prove amusing...it's now cross-threaded
(pun intended) on the bbs.
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Craig Bachler
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morbius
LCUSA Admin
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 1311
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| Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| bayarealam wrote: | | Quote: | | From what I understand the only 150 cases that can safely be restudded are the spanish ones because they used 200cc molds, at the very least the transfer surfaces are very thick. Boring out a 150 jug to 200 would probabbly leave you with a pile of fins. |
Voila!!! That is what I am saying. I have some Spanish cases and you are right. But you can't do it with Italian 150s. |
You can not do it unless you take the time to ali weld up the current stud holes and then build up the material around the outside of the cylinder hole so that when the boring is done, you are left with the same amount material as before. Then you have the fun of drilling and re-tapping the new stud holes. It has been done many times in the past but it takes a lot time to do it right and even more time to make it look nice. Honestly at that point you are better spending the time to clean up a SIL case and go from there.
I am amazed that first of all the studs stayed in place, but even more amazed that at 3000+ miles, the cylinder hole area has not cracked all the way through and broken away from the rest of the case. That area has been left really thin at this point (thinner than a 200cc case).
Cheers,
Roberto
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